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#88760 - 09/02/08 11:34 AM Re: Work and school [Re: Mom4Max]
johnblackwell Moderator Online   content
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Fairfax Co. VA USA
I never remember feeling that way about my parents' houses. That may have been because we moved four times, or because I never felt loved there. I always felt loved by my grandparents, and was upset when they moved when I was 16........

I don't want to sound as if I'm blaming my parents. I think it was hard for me to notice their love, mixed as it was with their perfectly reasonable concerns for my problems. All I heard was their disappointment in me. It's a bitter pill that whatever I say, that's all my son hears now.
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John
http://www.caseint.com/john
"I'm not sure of much of anything these days. Maybe that's why I talk so much." Robert Persig - Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance

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#88761 - 09/02/08 11:49 AM Re: Work and school [Re: johnblackwell]
Mom4Max Administrator Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 3412
Loc: Northern California
John,

The last sentence makes me so sad. My father was an alcoholic. I loved him dearly but I know I carry scars from his alcoholism. I drink very little but I know that we parent as we were parented because it is really all we know about parenting. I went to classes for Adult Children of Alcoholics when I was in my early twenties and my first 2 sons were very small. I wanted to break the chain and not carry that kind of parenting on to the next generation. It must have worked out ok because honestly my sons are two of the best fathers I have ever seen. Sometimes it is just a matter of breaking the chain. I know that your son is older but I bet you can learn from your parents mistakes even now...

You are a good man and you love your son so I trust at some point you two will work through this.

Linda

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#88764 - 09/02/08 12:28 PM Re: Work and school [Re: Mom4Max]
johnblackwell Moderator Online   content
Member

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Fairfax Co. VA USA
Everyone carries scars from events that all reasonable people would agree should never happen to anyone. All we can do is our best.

My father did his best, given who he was. Because I was me, it left scars that took until I was forty to heal enough for us to become friends. I did my best given who I am, and because my son is himself, he has scars from that. No doubt he'll recover in due course.

I'm just glad my parents lived long enough for me to get to know them as friends. I hope I live long enough for my son - I don't want him to feel guilty after I'm dead.

I had a friend whose parents were violent alcholics. Her father had died without recovering, but her mother had become a fun old lady, who could look back on her life with sadness but without destructive levels of guilt. Did your father ever find peace? Did you findpeace with him? Or are these questions too painful to answer?
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John
http://www.caseint.com/john
"I'm not sure of much of anything these days. Maybe that's why I talk so much." Robert Persig - Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance

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#88771 - 09/02/08 04:45 PM Re: Work and school [Re: johnblackwell]
v-dog Offline
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Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 3045
Loc: Earth
John - Have you asked him where he plans to be in 5 years and how he plans to get there?

It might be a good conversation starter.

Best Buy is sort of a hard-sell kind of place. I have been lied to and told disingenuous things there when trying to pick up a special. They have since publically announced that they would like to lose the bottom 20% (in terms of profit) of their customers.

I don't go in there unless I absolutely must and I carry a well-sharpened rhetorical sword with me when I do.

Put him in the car business. If he is smart and talented, he will be in management and earning six figures at five years.

Better yet, put him in the hellish car business for a year and then offer to help him with his college applications again.

Best Buy offers no job security, marginal pay, etc. At least in the car business you can find a new job in 10 minutes if you are breathing and have half a brain.

I agree that he has found a comfort zone. Some might call it a rut.

As a parent, maybe you could encourage him out of his rut without ordering him around.

You would be doing him a favour.

Selling cars espouses a lot of your values. There is man to man competition, rewarded by paychecks, spiffs and bonuses, and lots of pep-talks and the freedom to use any idea that will work, so long as it fits in the framework of the system used by the particular dealership.

My bet is that despite the large sums of money, he will be pining for school. He will be competing not just against young "greenpeas" but seasoned veterans in the car business. It might give him better perspective than the predominantly young salesforce at Best Buy.

Best of luck John - and you know I mean that.
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“I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning.”
- Aleister Crowley - The Book of Lies

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#88773 - 09/02/08 05:16 PM Re: Work and school [Re: v-dog]
johnblackwell Moderator Online   content
Member

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Fairfax Co. VA USA
I know you do - we drive each other nuts sometimes, but I have great respect for you.

You'd be amazed at how your advice tracks what I have been suggesting to him (somewhat based on things you have said in the past).

Thanks so much for your support.
_________________________
John
http://www.caseint.com/john
"I'm not sure of much of anything these days. Maybe that's why I talk so much." Robert Persig - Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance

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#88776 - 09/02/08 05:50 PM Re: Work and school [Re: johnblackwell]
Mom4Max Administrator Offline
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Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 3412
Loc: Northern California
Oh John, there was never a breach between us. No matter what his faults my Dad always loved me well. I never doubted his love for me for a second. And I loved him equally. He also was the funniest man I ever met - so any guys I dated had to be pretty damn funny or they did not stand a chance! It used to make me mad when I was really young that he would not just stop drinking. As I got older I realized it really was a disease and that he could not help it. He had his own demons. When I was 8 months pregnant with Max I flew 800 miles against Dr.s orders to be at his side and stay with him through the nights as he hated hospitals and I did not want him to die alone. I wrote a song for him called "Favorite Daughter" one of the lines in it is "You used to introduce me to your friends as your favorite daughter. And yes I know you introduced my sisters in the very same way. Your magic is we each believed we were the one you meant it about, and we still believe it to this very day" We have had discussions about this for years and we are all convinced we were his favorites. What a great legacy to leave your children....so there was no need to make peace, we were never at war. I could have asked for a better role model maybe or provider but I could never have asked for a father who loved me more and really isn't that one of the best gifts we can give our children?

Linda

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#88784 - 09/03/08 08:24 AM Re: Work and school [Re: Mom4Max]
johnblackwell Moderator Online   content
Member

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Fairfax Co. VA USA
Originally Posted By: Mom4Max
It used to make me mad when I was really young that he would not just stop drinking. As I got older I realized it really was a disease and that he could not help it.
That's exactly what I meant by making peace. After that you could enjoy each other's company without fear of accidentally reigniting old wounds, if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor. Apparently you "made it" at a much younger age than I did, so perhaps you're less concious of how much of a difference it made.
_________________________
John
http://www.caseint.com/john
"I'm not sure of much of anything these days. Maybe that's why I talk so much." Robert Persig - Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance

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#88811 - 09/04/08 08:36 AM Re: Work and school [Re: johnblackwell]
Pandora Offline
Member

Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 250
Loc: QLD Australia
That's all right smile The people in that village must be getting up to some naughty things if there are so many STDs.

I was very sad when mum had to sell the house my siblings and I grew up in and didn't like what the new owners did to the place. Mum thought about renting the house after she remarried (some years after dad died) but it is a lot of bother having a rental property and worrying that the renters could be trashing the place.

None of us were living in the town so couldn't buy the house off her. It was a really nice place and very big (there were 7 of us plus mum and dad)

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#88816 - 09/04/08 10:18 AM Re: Work and school [Re: Pandora]
johnblackwell Moderator Online   content
Member

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Fairfax Co. VA USA
You gotta admit, if you're going to get Aids, better at 80 than at 15!
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John
http://www.caseint.com/john
"I'm not sure of much of anything these days. Maybe that's why I talk so much." Robert Persig - Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance

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#88819 - 09/04/08 10:44 AM Re: Work and school [Re: johnblackwell]
BK_G Administrator Online   content
Self diagnosed aspie.
Member

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 6563
Loc: Duncan BC Canada
Just like smoking, John. If you have to experiment, do it at 80.
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A smile can be infectious. Let's hope they never find a cure.

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