Can anyone suggest ways for me to help jacob start to learn pappy is sick and eventually can go any day? I have a bery difficult time with this as well, since I am my pappy's and bubbas kid. Jacob like myself is one of their favorites. (These are my grandparents) Since Dec 2007, paps health has declinced. It has been very stressful and on a few occasions we thought it was time. We have been doing ok (no early 2am calls ) because pappy is sick, until recently. My mom and him git into a tiff yesterday about him taking antidepressants. The home health nurse "feels" he needs them.My mom usually calls me in emergency because I'm the only one he'll listen too(my mom and bubba they just argue with him),,, and it makes things worse. So anyhow he wole up check his sugar and gave himself insulin at 4am. Mom thinks he's trying to get back at her for the fight over the pills yesterday. While there he made a comment to my mom, ..."well I'll just get up and take the whole damn bottle of insulin." (He knows how to push buttons. Mom reminded him not to say crap like that cause Jacob was in the other room(he was staying overnight at their house.) So mom called me to come down and take care of the situation so she took Jacob down to herhouse. Pappys ok, but he was even growly at me and he never has been before. He was po'd that mom called me to come down. I feelhe is depressed and turthfully d/t his poor health, don't know how long hes gonna be with us. I need to help myself so I can help Jacob when its time to cope. Any suggestions\|
Thanks

Explaining death is really difficult for any parent to any child.
The hardest part will be worrying about Jacob obsessing over his own death ( at least I would worry about that with Jake ).
Unfortuantly, most books for kids about death use all kinds of illusion..that would make much sense to our kids.
I think that you can talk about how pappys body is older, and he uses it a lot, but it's getting tired out. He takes medicine, and goes to the Dr to help his body, but there are some things that Drs and medicine can't fix. And, there will be a time when Pappys body no longer works. I don't think talking about him going to sleep for a long time etc would be a good idea. It would freak him out.
Jake lost his great grandmother when he was @ 5, and I told him that her body was too tired and sick and there was no more medicine for her big sick. ( we have little sicks and get anibiotics ). And, he ha seen Coreeta Scott KIngs funeral on TV and knew that " people get put in a box and put in the ground ".
The idea of like heaven and all that..doean't work with my kid.

I am sorry that you have to go through this tough time..

Megan

The idea of Heaven can work on an AS child, depending on the individual. Some of the most pious people I know have AS.

First regarding your grandfather: go immediately to your local pharmacist and ask whether he does in truth, need anti-depressants. As low as pharmacists are on the "pecking order" of the medical world, they are more likely to know about the symptoms of pills than doctors or nurses.

When my own grandfather went to hospital for the last time, it transpired that one of the 11 different types of medication that he had been taking for the past five years was bad for heart patients, and I will never forgive myself for not checking with the pharmacist first. No law exists in the UK that forces a pharmacist to agree with what a doctor or nurse writes on a prescription. Check around, but I'm sure the same applies in the US.
Someone "feeling" that it would be better for someone to take antidepressants is not a good reason to do so. If it's a human life you're playing with- however old it is- you can't afford to gamble even if the dice is in the hand of a nurse.

Next, regarding your son. Explain to him that sometimes he gets a cold or a cough and feels unwell. Explain to him that when old people are unwell it's more serious. Explain that even if his great-grandparents do quarrel, it doesn't mean they love him less.

Remind him of the last time he swatted a fly; one minute it was moving about the next minute it wasn't. Explain that life for humans (usually) is more gradual than that. Maybe he has seen a tortoise in a garden, and can understand that people can go a bit slow like that as well. Tell him that his great-grandfather, in his old age, is probably beginning to realise that- like the tortoise- he can't move as fast as he would like any more and that may be why he seems so angry.
Say that all animals- including humans- must live and die on this world, and that he must take a lesson to make the most of those years that he has, and if you have any religious convictions, then- if you can- explain that even if his great-grandfather does pass on, it doesn't mean he's necessarily gone forever because he'll see him again.

But definitely see to it that you deal with this anti-depressant nonsense first, because the fact that your grandfather may be close to his end doesn't necessarily mean it's a good reason to hasten the process.

I do remember being told never to use comforting metaphors about death like "he just went to sleep for a long time". Children can become terrified of going to sleep in case they never wake up.

Grandpa is probably hostile partly because he is afraid of what is coming, and partly because he feels he has lost all control over even the few days he has left.

I tend in such circumstances to tell the truth as clearly as I can. It may hurt for a minute, but confusion hurts for a long time.

there are things to do and things one can tell a young person where death is concerned.

events as you discribe them sound what i imagine to be "normal" in a family where death is near, but there are things you can do.

it is the death of the person who is dying, no one else's. let the person who is dying decide what he or she wants while dying.

do not put the person who is dying in the position of having to "take care" of anyone who is reacting poorly to the pending death.

make sure that everyone realizes that its time to say what they will wish they had said if they don't.

speak of the past: of happy things and of regrets.

speak of the present: of what is known, felt, and to be done.

speak of the future: of hopes and dreams.

if children are to experience the death of a family member, and if the family has no formal belief system to provide answers, ask them if they remember where they were before they were born. they will think about it, and give their answer. whatever they say, tell them that the person who is dying is going back there.


regards,

I think most of you hit the button on the nose. Especially Megan. I know Jacob would be like Jake in "freaking out" if you told himm "pappy went to sleep". Chay- whats difficult is I'm a nurse as well. What really sucks is when something goes wrong, (or seems like) i get called "to fix (take care ) of the problem, just like Friday night at 345am, my mother called because my pap had gotten up ate a snack, gave himself an insulin shot," because his sugar was low" Jacob was staying at their hous and my mother said I needed to come down and take care of this because she was taking Jacob down to her house so he wouldn't get upset (if I had to send him to the hosp). I got dressed and went down, pap was p'o'd because mom had called me. Since pap has went downhill in December, my bubba gets really upset really easily. There was really nothing anyone could do, but watch him. I went down checked his sugar, it was fine. I told him to go back to bed and when he got up NOT to take his insulin. I love my family dearly, but when something goes wrong its "melody to the rescue" I've told them many times... I'm a nurse, not a doctor. The funny thing is my pap will only listen to me. He argues with my bubba and my mom. I really do nothing different than tell him what to do. One big question thats on my mind is " when can Jacob no longer stay overnight at pap and bubbas? My husband feels he shouldn't stay overnight because just for the fact of the incident the other night. But how do I tell him no, when I want him to be around them as much as he can cause I know they won't be around forever. Jacob is extremely close to them, just like I am and was as a child. ???? My heart is torn! I have to go. I'm at work and the tears are coming. sorry. thanks for all of your suggestions. I'm glad I have a placeto go for people to listen.

Melody - I would let Jake have every second with them he can. Time is short and love is important. I would just tell Jake, when people get old some times they get cranky. Pappy is not feeling great and he and bubba are tired and so sometimes there may be harsh words. We just have to try to be understanding and if anything ever bothers you or confuses you you can always come to me with any questions you may have.

I think what Jake gets from this relationship is such a gift. Since he still wants to go clearly he is not bothered by what is going on. If he becomes uncomfortable with it he will probably not want to go so I would not change anything unless he wants to.

Linda

I'm a nurse too, so I totally understand about family and friends calling to ask for help/advice whether or not it is your specialty. On the bright side of that my kids have a lot of respect for what I have to say about all things medical. They know and understand that eventually all bodies get too old and worn out to live and that eventually everyone dies.
From an objective point of view it might be helpful for your son (depending on his age and maturity level) to know that Pappy's body is starting to get worn out and that affects how his body works but also how his brain works. Let him know that sometimes Pappy might do or say things that aren't right or normal for him, but that it is just part of the disease process and not how Pappy really feels about him or anyone else in the family.
If he seems to understand and accept this, then you could let him decide how much time he feels comfortable spending with Pappy (as long as it's safe for him, of course). If he wants to spend as much time as possible with them, then be sure to give him concrete examples of some things that might go wrong or be said while he is there, followed with examples of what he should do (go get Bubba, call Mom, talk soothingly to Pappy, or leave the room until things calm down). If he understands and is able to follow these suggestions, then he might feel more secure with visits. And, make sure that your mom and Bubba know what you have discussed with him so that they can help him if the need arises.
It is a hard thing to decide whether to stay away or spend all of the time possible with the loved one who won't be around much longer, but try to go with Jacob's comfort level. He may be able to handle more than you think.
Having said all of this, I am having flash-backs to last year when my mother was being taken away in an ambulance with severe pneumonia, and my son (then 8) was sobbing as he watched them take Jah Jah away. He was worried about whether or not she would live. I wish I had prepared him better for the reason of our visit and the possibility of what he might see and hear and what might happen while we were there. It may have been a little easier for him.
I'm sorry for rambling. I am just thinking that for my son, more information is ususally better. And, from a scientific standpoint he can understand almost anything that is explained to him, and he seems to be more confident with things when he understands them.

Thank you solblessed. My feelings are to let the kids spend as much time with them because they are getting older and worn out, its my husband that really doesn't think its safe for them to go down. Bubba even told my mom that she can't hadle Jacob too much anymore, but didnt want to tell me to hurt my or Jacob's feelings. So next time he asked to stay, I called bubba she said ok. She always says yes, cuz she doesn't want to hurt Jacob's feelings. She is also very sensitice these days with also I think is severe depression or early alzheimer's. My heart is pulled so many different ways. I want to protect him, I thimk he'll be ok (he can use a phone), and I want him to spend as much time with them because they are his "safe haven" when he's upset, he always wants to go there. Its hard facing reality that my grandparents are someday going to die, because like Jacob, I 'm "their kid" too. So you can maybe see how torn I am. My heart always takes over my brain when it comes to this situation. We only live a mile from them, and my mom next door, so someone can be there in a second. So thats really why I still feel its ok for him to go. Thanks for your kind words. It helps to be able to get this out and not bottle it up or transform into an arguement like it ususa;;y does with my husband. I don't know what else to say to my husband to make him understand where I'm coming from. His family is not close like mine is.