I've been meaning to write this all day, but other things took precedence.

When read this board, I see concerns about being a loser from both parents and Aspies themselves.

Let me tell you a story about a group of "losers" -Aspies and Aspie-like folks alike.

I am talking about my dorm my first year of college.

When first semester grades came out,we were paid a visit by the dean of students. He was a great academicmind - a professor of mathematics.

He said, in a scene reminiscent of the film "Animal House," - "You people have the lowest cumulative GPA of any dorm on campus. I just want to know why."

I tried the old "We were randomly assigned here - and some dorm will always be the lowest" argument. No sale.

I tried the "You can't expect usto be in the highest percentages intellectually and still be normal" argument. No sale.

(There were only 26 of us, so there was plenty of room for me to talk.)

He was afraid, like many parents of Aspies and Aspies themselves, that we were going to be losers. That would lookbad forhim,the school, and our parents and he was determined to fix it.

Well, he couldn't fix it.

But when I look at my dorm-mates, today I am very proud.

My roommate is a professor of Chinese in Chicago. One of my best friends from that dorm,and a later off-campushouse, is a professor at Stanford. One of the women built a multi-million dollar business, and I am proud toconsider her a dear friend. Another woman went on to write a book about the PKK and was recently on C-Span book television.

I, of course, went on to make a few totally cool rock and roll records and got to hang out with my rock-and-roll peeps.

There were no losers there.

We knew it.

It just wasn't obvious to those on the outside looking in.

"Loser" callers are a bit like bullies - you have to realize that they have their own problems, and are desperate to divert attention elsewhere.

I think you are right, in general, but there is also no doubt in my mind that Jack, who died last year, had a genuine interest in helping us.

He was legendary amongst students for handing out the last $40 in his wallet to anyone who seemed to need help.

I wanted to tell that true-life tale to give hope to parents and to Aspies.

The Stanford professor recently e-mailed me and said that he thought he was an Aspie too after reading the info I sent him about Asperger's and my disclosing that I had been diagnosed.

When I was about 13, my mother drove by as I was walking home from school. One of the school bullies was harassing on me on the way home, punching me in the back and kicking at me. My mother stopped and picked me up and said “Why do you let them do that to you, why don’t you stand up for yourself and fight back”. I was a skinny tall weakling, nerdy looking and picked on by everyone, including most teachers. Getting sucker punched for no reason was a common thing to me. It’s hard to fight back when the majority is against you. When moving from junior high school to senior high, I moved to a rural school, which was out of my school district. I moved so I could start over and get away from the bullies that made my life miserable. It wasn't long though that it was the same old thing, bullies had discovered my vulnerability. One Friday on the way home from school, one of the bullies that rode on the bus, started to antagonize me. I decided that day that I had enough, so I got off the bus with this bully and decided to fight him. We fought with a bunch of students watching and making a lot of commotion. A local business owner called the police, which took us both to jail. The police released the bully soon afterwards to his parents. Since I had got off the bus before my regular stop and finally stood my ground, I was held accountable for the fight. I was held in the local jail. I was told that my parents had decided to let me sit in jail over the weekend, so I could learn my lesson. I sat in jail with the adult prisoners until Monday morning. The juvenile judge at that time had a policy; every juvenile male would have their head shaved before leaving the jail. I was arranged in juvenile court Monday morning and released. I went before the judge later on and received 3 months probation.
That weekend in jail destroyed what little fight I had in me. I didn’t know what to do to defend myself. I have relived that experience and many like it over and over throughout my life. I ask myself, are their bullies in the afterlife?

You, punching bag, were BETRAYED by your mother. And the system. Obviously I cannot help make all your memories become good ones, and even words of support are going to be wholly inadequate.

From what I've seen, most people who are bullied go in one of two directions: extreme aggressiveness in retaliation; and complete withdrawal. There are few who manage to balance things or come up with other solutions. I suspect that parental support is crucial in resolving things at a fair balance, or help and intervention from some other concerned adult. You obviously had neither, and I am very sorry for that.

As for bullies in the afterlife, maybe, except that I'm not a believer in an afterlife so I don't worry about it. Fanatical religious people are the worst bullies of all, and THEY think they're going to have a lovely afterlife. If I'm mistaken, and there is one, I have a feeling that they are going to be the last ones enjoying themselves. When one takes on the position of enforcing God's laws you'd better be absolutely perfect; something about those in glass houses and those without sin casting stones comes to mind.

My mother was and is a good person, my father a hard person. My mother did whatever my father directed. My mother stood up for us children when my father was overbearing and cruel. I cant blame her for my problems. I know its hard to be a good parent, I have made a lot of mistakes myself.
As for the afterlife, I agree with you, I think when we are dead we are dead and that is the end, but if I am wrong and their is something after life, then I hope it isn't as cruel as life on this planet. Imagine

Well, I'm a big believer not only in the afterlife, but in the idea that multiple existences surround us which most people perceive not at all, and some of us get occasional glimpses of.

It's where art comes from. And I am an artist.

I am not one to deny that there may well be other forms of existence, and certainly other ways to experience things in this life, but the idyllic form of 'heaven' as espoused by organized religion is, in my view, ludicrous.

As we already know, NTs and aspies don't experience life in the same way, and pleasures for one can be irritations for the other. Compound those relatively mild differences with adrenaline seekers and those who need calm, extrapolate and you can see that the 'standard' view of heaven cannot be heavenly to all and sundry.

As for your mother, punching bag, she might be a saint, but attacking you for not standing up to bullies instead of dealing with the observed bullying is NOT support, and in my view, NOT the right thing to have done. I am sorry if that offends you, and I hasten to add that I am not saying your mother is the source of your problems, but she didn't exactly help much in that instance, did she? At the least she could have taken you to judo or karate classes to give you a start on HOW to stand up to bullies. Criticism without guidance is useless, since the presumption has to be that you are already doing the best you know how.

your story sounds so much like my childhood, except that I never spent time in jail. most of memories growing up were those of getting picked on at school and on the bus. it is sad that your mom told you to stand up for yourself and fight back; then when you did, have you sit in jail for the weekend. that was WRONG; obviously sent mixed signals to you and made your life completely nuts. we have an incredibly hard time deciphering clues and hidden meanings and when we try to figure it out most often we are wrong.

I got into several fights as a kid, lost most of them. I had gotten taken to the police station on several occaisions for fighting but never put in jail. once I got into karate, I never fought again, because I know I didn't have to fight.


I have a very hard time subscribing to the roman catholic preachings. they want you to base faith on completely unknown unproven ideas that used to apease the masses. religion was brought about to give the unskilled/uneducated people of the dark ages something to believe in and work forward. gave them fear but meaning into their life. they had no education and probably barely any intellegence, so the powers that be, had the intellegnce devised a way to apease that masses of people, gave them fear yet hope for a better life, told them of a better "afterlife" in heaven. they had something to fear, something to work towards and gave them a meaning in life.

I have an incredibly hard time subscibing to the bible. it was writtens years after the fact. stories were told to one another long before it was written down. if anyone has ever played telephone as a kid; you'll know exactly what I mean. a story will be completely twisted and altered than the original

PB (I hope you don't mind if I can't accept your name here for now),

I think I understand the intensity of the incident for you, and even more likely your reaction.

And I respect that it still weighs heavily.

Now, does it HAVE TO?

I won't bully you, and I won't rush you.
Not here - no timetables, no demands, no checklists, no pressure.

Lots of people in here, along a path - some just arrived, some guiding same, some in various stages of the path, some further along.... probably none foolish enough to proclaim "graduation."

But please dare to hope that some enlightenment is here - even if none of us quite know exactly from where...........