With a marriage counselor like that, I WOULD feel depressed. I think you both need a new marriage counselor who has knowledge of AS.

Seriously dude, Asperger's is not something you can change in and out of, like a suit or costume. You simply cannot be dressed as Santa Claus one day and the Bunny Rabbit the next. Not going to happen. May be your wife just needs time, may be she needs told that nothing will change, that you're still the man she's married (only wiser) - but that's a lot of may be's and I'm not good at reading people.

I'm still learning that THERE ARE things I cannot control. I had a seizure induced by anxiety at work the other day. I'm dragging my feet this morning because I'm embarrassed .... nothing I could have done to prevent it. However, as soon as I got home from the hospital, I made damn sure that I have my emergency anti-anxiety medications in my lunch bag.

Howie's secret is that he's super Aspie (joking) ;-) Seriously, though, there's just those people who are willing to be accepting and those, for whatever reason, cannot be accepting. That's why I like my dude so much - he accepts me, medical conditions and all. He's simply not afraid of a little seizure.

I would say to he-double hockey sticks. Go out and get your fishing license. Bring the kids with you. Get them their own poles and make it your OWN outing. My mom hated fishing - and some of the (albeit few) good memories of my dad is when he took my brother and I fishing.

- Serenity

IANC, the difference is that in the way you posted it, you hurt her badly, then now you love her and want things to be right. In the order I put it, you love her, and want things to be right, but you hurt her.

Your way seems to me to be apologetic, as if you could have controlled things better, and my order seem more like a sad commentary on a situation that has developed despite your love from the beginning.

I've thought about this post a lot, since I think it demonstrates my point very well, but I can't think of a tactful way of saying so. Serenity is expressing honestly a viewpoint that many women may hold to varying degrees - that any man to whom sex is more important than birthdays is a jerk. Meanwhile, it would not be too much of a distotion of IANCs posts to say that he is complaining that his wife is obsessing about birthdays and refusing to have sex.

Serenity says she offers her boyfriends many chances, but chances to do what? Behave like a woman and treat birthdays as more important than sex? No doubt IANC has given his wife many chances to behave like a man and treat sex as more important than birthdays.

It doesn't work like that, and never will. Most men are pretty much hard-wired to enjoy sex, but have to learn the joy of arranging birthday parties for others. Most women are hard-wired to enjoy social rituals, but have to learn to enjoy sex. A successful relationship is built on both parties accepting the other's needs and joys as legitimate, even if it is hard at first to understand why they find it so important.

My wife was born near Christmas, and always complained that her birthday celebrations were overshadowed by Christmas. I still don't fully understand why this whole business is so important to women, but that's not the point - to make my wife happy, I invented a 'half-birthday' celebration in June. And guess what - now I do look forward to figuring out something new, different, and unexpected to do for her each June. Similarly, most women who start by taking pleasure in the fact that they are giving their men joy in bed find that in due course they enjoy it too.

Actually, it has nothing to do with sex. I personally think women want sex just as much as men, thus making the point mute.

I'm just happy that he can even pinpoint the month of my birthday because it means he took the time to memorize some little trivial amount of information about me - i.e. he "cares" about me.

I gave my past boyfriends several chances to treat me like a human being and as someone who was more than an object of free sex. I never got the respect nor the acceptance (as a human being, not as just someone with a disability or whatever) that I deserved. With the said dude, I get both - AND he likes me inside and out. He respects me. If I'm not feeling well, he doesn't try to force me into it and will instead snuggle up. With him, I'm a human being - and one who deserves to be respected and accepted.

- Serenity

okay that makes sense. thank you for the clarification. it is made to seem like I could have controlled things better back then. yeah maybe IF I had been diagnosed as asperger way back in my youth. nowadays, yes maybe I can control somethings better but back then no I couldn't.

"With a marriage counselor like that, I WOULD feel depressed. I think you both need a new marriage counselor who has knowledge of AS." the tremendously painful facts of reality is that there are VERY few if ANY therapist that are knowledgable enough in aspergers to be able to understand me. at least in my area, very very few resources available for adults with AS unless you are like totally nonfuctioning. the one therapist that had me pegged from the get go, who started the ball rolling for a diagnosis, moved to San Diego. she was the best therapist that I EVER had met, the only one who ever UNDERSTOOD me amd how I worked and how she had to work with me. any Californians out there that may meet Erica Cuni, please tell her to come back to Connecticut, I need her LOL. seriously. at least let her know she was right and I thank her from my heart

I know it, you know we all know that you can't change out of aspergers, its who we are for better or for worse. take us or leave us. I am trying to learn how to read and understand emotions but there is a chance that I might NEVER be able to fully achieve success.

the kids already have their own fishing pole, well actually they have 2 each. getting close to daddy, I've got like 12 fishing poles. my wife likes to fish too, but I have to bait the hook and unhook the fish. cleaning it goes without saying that I do it. one year when I caught a bunch of fish I could clean a fish in less than a minute. my kids help out cleaning too and dont get grossed out by it either. they see dad working and getting dirty so they think that it is fine and not yuky.

I hit an all time new low in depression today. I mean she buried the knife up to the pommel (bottom of handle) into my heart. she told me that she hasn't loved me since I betrayed her. these past 10 years have been a lie, to herself and me. she didn't love me nor wanted to be with me!!!! ok so WTFH was those years about? so why now does she bring it up? I mean we brought 2 wonderful kids into the world with the intention of raising them together. if she didn't love me than why in the f****** hell did we have kids? that is no way to raise them! she said that if I can change, but didn't offer any suggestions or ideas that we might have a chance. ok so are there any NT people with their head on straight want to switch with me? I am trying to understand emotions and also tying to find out who I am at the same time.

I told her that I had thought of moving out for a short time so i could sort through this mess. she said that she cant manage the house by herself and would either have to foreclose or sell it. ok so in 2 years if we divorce than what?

I cant even begin to describe the anger, confusion, uncertainty and pain I'm going through. I ALMOST wish i was dead but I cant do that to my kids. the pain and turmoil I'm under is sickening and stresful.

this period of uncertainty is just tearing me up inside and I can only pray that this will pass and soon, I cant handle this anymore. I wish I could be able to understand her and meet her feelings and needs without being prompted or cued in.
I've got a very bad feeling that we are history and no matter what I do or how much I change for the better we are history.

I truly don't know what to say or suggest that I haven't mentioned before. Her statement seems to me to be a pure and simple admission of entrapment by fatherhood. Once you see there is no chance, you need to make a decision and start to improve your situation as best you can. Immersing yourself in the same turmoil and distress on a daily basis is no way to move on. Frankly, if you keep on doing what you are doing, you are going to snap and be no good to anyone. The uncertainty is coming from your dependence on your wife's position, and it is pretty clear that position is not anywhere near where you want to be.

BTW, I tried to find a phone number or office address for Erica in San Diego, but failed to turn up anything. I was hoping to forward all your posts to her, and get her opinion of the current developments. That might well have been stepping over the line as a moderator, but since you found her to be the only one who was helpful, it seemed worth an attempt. Sadly, there is nothing publicly available online.

Somehow I don't recall many men complaining that women treat them purely as sex objects, so there seems to be a difference somewhere.

I enjoy eating many fruits, particularly oranges and pears, but I very rarely find myself lusting after them. I also enjoy chocolate, and do find it hard sometimes to resist chocolate. Things have to be sort of organized for me to eat fruit (somewhere to throw orange peel or wipe pear juice off my chin) but somehow these minor things never discourage me from eating chocolate. Perhaps most men's sexual appetite is more like my appetite for chocolate, and perhaps most women's sexual appetite is more like my appetite for fruit.

My real point, though, is that if you have rejected every unmarried boyfriend you have tried as a jerk (and for the same reason in each case) there seems to be a pattern. As Bart said recently, insanity is repeating the same behavior expecting the results to be different. Perhaps other women on this board can comment on the likely results of dating a married man, but my guess is this will not work well for you.

I predict that you will enjoy a relationship only when you can find it within yourself to take pleasure in his enthusiasms, even if they sometimes come at times when it takes a certain effort for you to respond. Equally, you will recogise the relationship as marriage-worthy when you see that he is willing to make an effort to indulge your enthusiasms, such as birthdays.

No I don't view that as crossing the line. as a matter of fact, I greatly and deeply appreciated the effort. it means so much. thank you. wish you could have found her


I am coming to realize just how severely I depend on her for EVERYTHING! that is both unhealthy and uncalled for in any sense. i am trying to cut that dependance for every reason but it is so dam hard because the I've ALWAYS depended on her our entire time together. if you remember Jasper, I'm pretty much in the same boat as she is. I've almost NEVER been out on my own alone and THAT scares the ever living hell out of me. I was alone for about 2 years at most, on my own and quite frankly I have NO idea how I managed or survived!

I guess I am afraid of being alone because I need to feel needed or wanted and without it I feel empty and useless. since I have such a hard time making or keeping friends i feel as though I am going to be very lonely and unhappy. that is a major reason why when i get something I hold on too tight because i dont want to let go.

IANC, I agree with Bart. From what you say, your marriage is essentially bankrupt, and your attempts to resurrect it are more likely to lead to further harm than good. It's not even a moral question any more, just a matter of survival.

A marriage is as much about negotiation as 'true love', and negotiation only works when both parties have (in some sense) equal negotiating strength. It sounds to me as if you are so afraid of being alone that you have no negotiating strength, so you come away from each negotiation feeling taken advantage of. This cannot change until you become confident you can enjoy life living alone.

Once you acheive this, your attitude will naturally become "Honey, it's fun to live with you, but not if you behave like this. I'm not disputing your right to behave this way, but next time you do, I'm history."